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Old 21-02-14, 05:16 PM
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Default Another trajic start to the season

read full story ››http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay....y121.html%23cr

Once again last year hundreds of dead puffins were found along the east coast of England.
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Old 21-02-14, 07:49 PM
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Not good news!!!!

It's never good to find dead wildlife, but hundreds is just awful
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Old 22-02-14, 04:20 PM
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Distressing perhaps, but at least on this occasion it's largely natural (only a small proportion have showed any signs of oiling, possibly because the same storms that have caused the birds problems will have dispersed any oil from ships illegally washing out tanks).

Over fishing, and potentially climate change, are of course potentially a problem as poor breeding success, which it has been suggested may be linked to these, may restrict the natural ability of the affected bird's populations to recover from natural wrecks like this, which have no doubt been affecting them for thousands of years.

Last edited by RoyW__; 22-02-14 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 28-02-14, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyW__ View Post
Distressing perhaps, but at least on this occasion it's largely natural (only a small proportion have showed any signs of oiling, possibly because the same storms that have caused the birds problems will have dispersed any oil from ships illegally washing out tanks).

Over fishing, and potentially climate change, are of course potentially a problem as poor breeding success, which it has been suggested may be linked to these, may restrict the natural ability of the affected bird's populations to recover from natural wrecks like this, which have no doubt been affecting them for thousands of years.
Even if it a natural a disaster is a disaster, surely. or are we missing the point, thanks for this Aquila, I would not know how to find all the reports you find. And I believe a lot of this report is not all natural ??
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Old 28-02-14, 12:07 PM
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Yes, a disaster is a disaster as you say. But firstly, the word is seriously over-used; Manchester United losing to Olympiacos is emphatically NOT a disaster.

Secondly, and more importantly, whilst the line between "natural" and "unnatural" (?) disasters is becoming blurred (eg flooding in Somerset and elsewhere is - in my opinion - at least partly due to human activity and is therefore "unnatural"), natural disasters are essentially beyond human influence, whereas "unnatural" disasters aren't.

The distinction between the two is largely unhelpful, and disaster researchers distinguish amongst natural, technological, and anthropogenic disasters. Simply put, the difference lies in whether the causes of each should be the focus for action (pointless for a natural disaster), or the effects. There's no point getting worked up about the deaths of birds or people caught up in naturally-occurring catastrophic events, sad though this is. There's a world of difference however, when human activity lies at the heart of those deaths.

Politically, (small 'p') this is important. Governments wishing to avoid investing in disaster prevention measures will try to categorise most disasters as in some way natural and unavoidable, and will thus seek only to offer limited help to the victims. In modern societies driven solely by economic growth, even disasters resulting from the breakdown of technology (oil spillages anyone?) are redefined as somehow "natural" in a technological world, the inevitable result of giving us what we want, so why waste time trying to prevent them?? OK - the need to clean up the mess is accepted, but not the need to prevent it happening again. And so it does.

Sorry - this thread sparked a small bonfire in my head about a subject - disasters and the way they're portrayed - that has interested me for years. Rant over.

Tny
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Old 28-02-14, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony F View Post
Yes, a disaster is a disaster as you say. But firstly, the word is seriously over-used; Manchester United losing to Olympiacos is emphatically NOT a disaster.

Secondly, and more importantly, whilst the line between "natural" and "unnatural" (?) disasters is becoming blurred (eg flooding in Somerset and elsewhere is - in my opinion - at least partly due to human activity and is therefore "unnatural"), natural disasters are essentially beyond human influence, whereas "unnatural" disasters aren't.

The distinction between the two is largely unhelpful, and disaster researchers distinguish amongst natural, technological, and anthropogenic disasters. Simply put, the difference lies in whether the causes of each should be the focus for action (pointless for a natural disaster), or the effects. There's no point getting worked up about the deaths of birds or people caught up in naturally-occurring catastrophic events, sad though this is. There's a world of difference however, when human activity lies at the heart of those deaths.

Politically, (small 'p') this is important. Governments wishing to avoid investing in disaster prevention measures will try to categorise most disasters as in some way natural and unavoidable, and will thus seek only to offer limited help to the victims. In modern societies driven solely by economic growth, even disasters resulting from the breakdown of technology (oil spillages anyone?) are redefined as somehow "natural" in a technological world, the inevitable result of giving us what we want, so why waste time trying to prevent them?? OK - the need to clean up the mess is accepted, but not the need to prevent it happening again. And so it does.

Sorry - this thread sparked a small bonfire in my head about a subject - disasters and the way they're portrayed - that has interested me for years. Rant over.

Tny
Crikey Tony you sound and write just like one of our other members, any disaster in my eyes is a disaster to the ones involved, like at the moment in time not been able to post pictures on this kind of forum, to the ones involved is a disaster. Even if only minor. LoL sorry not trying to take anything away from the meat of this story. To us in Yorkshire this is a follow on story to the news last spring that hundreds of dead Puffins were washed up on our shores.
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Old 28-02-14, 11:44 PM
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...... like at the moment in time not been able to post pictures on this kind of forum, to the ones involved is a disaster. Even if only minor.....
Really? Can there be such a thing as a minor disaster? For me it's frustrating certainly, and possibly a minor irritant.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, or I'll be lecturing again.

BTW and for what it's worth, my interest in how disasters are constructed, portrayed and responded to arose out of Hillsborough. Disasters always have tragic outcomes, but these aspects fascinate me.

Cheers

Tony
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Old 01-03-14, 08:06 PM
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Even if it a natural a disaster is a disaster, surely. or are we missing the point...?
Firstly, I agree with Tony that the word "disaster" is often overused, and that the line between 'natural' and 'unnatural' is far from distinct (some might even argue that human activity is responsible for the frequency of recent storms - but I don't think there is enough current evidence to support this).

With regard to these reports of Puffins, and other seabirds, being washed up dead following storms, this is something that will have been affecting them for hundreds of thousands of years, and will have directly influenced the ability of the species to live at sea.
The extremes of the conditions that all species face, whatever habitat they live in, remove the individuals that are less able to survive from the population with the result that only the best adapted individuals survive to breed and pass on their genes. This strengthens the populations ability to endure the conditions they face naturally.
'Unnatural' conditions which occur as a direct result of human activity, usually involve changes that occur too fast for species to adapt to through natural evolution and/or kill even the 'fittest' individuals.

The natural mortality seen in bird and animal population s always high, we just don't often see the results as noticeably.
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